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---- 翻译演习（三）—台湾的宗教信仰
(http://fane.cn/forum_list.asp?forum_id=34&view_id=16150)
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-- 作者：意外
-- 时间：2005-10-4 12:51:36
-- 翻译演习（三）—台湾的宗教信仰
文章看似简单，但感觉句子处理上挺棘手的，而且上下文的连贯好像也不是很好，总之这次翻译得不在状态，请大家帮忙改改吧
原文：
台湾的宗教信仰
在台湾，宗教信仰是生活中相当重要的一部份。
随着中西文化的交流，西方宗教也渐渐为人民所接受。比如天主教在山地就有广大的信徒；基督教会更是深入社会各个角落。佛教徒的人数在台湾极多，估计至少有上百万的信徒。还有一些地方性的民间宗教，融合了佛教、道教及儒家思想，因为最能配合当地居民的需要与想法，相当流行。台湾的大拜拜非常有趣，可算是民间宗教活动的高潮。各地寺庙里烧香的信徒，挤得人山人海。有的还摆下数百桌酒席，鸡鸭鱼肉，大吃大喝，极为热闹。
民间信仰的另一点特色则是一些特别的习俗：结婚要合八字；买房子要看风水；遇到困难要找算命先生。有人说这些是迷信，但是这样的信仰在某些方面的确带给人们许多精神上的安慰。
译文：
Religious Beliefs in Taiwan
In Taiwan, religious beliefs play an important part in daily lives.
Along with the cultural exchange between China and the West, western religions are gradually accepted by the masses. For example, Catholicism finds a large number of adherents in the mountainous area, and Christianity has even spread into all walks of life. Buddhists are numerous in Taiwan and its estimated number is at least over millions.Other local folk religions, which combine thoughts of Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism, are also quite popular because they manage to match the needs and notions of local inhabitants. Temple fairs in Taiwan are very interesting and could be regarded as the climax of folk religious activities. Huge crowd of disciples offer incenses in every temple; some of them even prepare large-scale feasts with fine dishes and wines for people to enjoy in such a lively and bustling atmosphere.
Another feature of folk beliefs is a number of unique customs like matching a couple’s horoscope before marriage, consulting Fengshui before buying a house and looking for fortune-tellers when in troubles. Superstitious as people may criticise, yet in some respects, these beliefs indeed bring people a lot of mental comforts.
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月07日 21时35分42秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：welkin25
-- 时间：2005-10-5 11:33:25
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civilians，指非军人的平民，跟军人是对立的概念（比如战时新闻会报告总死亡人数，其中平民多少多少，就是这个civilian)。所以“人民”还是用普通的people（或是其他什么词）为好
besides用词不当
注意一下词性和时态，比如every temples和people may criticised就有错误
其他构句方面还有些“感觉”上的问题，比较难分析就不说了。
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-- 作者：意外
-- 时间：2005-10-5 15:30:47
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实在不好意思啊，楼上说的一些词性和时态的错误是修改后的痕迹，一时粗心忘了改回来了
civilians 我改成 the masses，你觉得如何呢？
还想请问一下“besides”的用法，不可以像“in addition/moreover/furthermore”这类副词般单独出来连接连个句子吗？ 还是我意义上理解错了呢？
我也觉得我译出来的句子念起来有点别扭，但是不知道怎么改得更畅顺，可以请Welkin25帮帮忙指正一下吗？
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-- 作者：welkin25
-- 时间：2005-10-5 21:19:41
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masses 很好。
Besides... 虽然跟 in addition 很相近，但是语气上有转折加强的意思。中文翻译过来应该是“再说。”
例，I don't feel like cooking; besides, there's no food in the house.
我不太想做饭；再说了，家里现在也没什么可吃的。
象是烧香，觉得翻成进香(offer incense to gods or something)比较好。burn incense。。。给我的感觉就是地上一堆香，大家在添柴的感觉 *_*
我说的构句不当，比如下面这句
some of them even prepare large-scale feasts with fine dishes for people to enjoy their wine and dine in such a lively and bustling atmosphere.
"fine dishes" 和 "wine" 都是宴席上吃的，按理讲应该处于同等的位置，你却把它们分开，所以会很奇
怪。
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月05日 21时22分23秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：welkin25
-- 时间：2005-10-5 21:25:24
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再挑剔点，可以谈到一句话的侧重点
但是这样的信仰在某些方面的确带给人们许多精神上的安慰 <-- 中文里侧重点是“的确带给人们安慰”
yet these beliefs indeed bring people a lot of mental comforts in some respects
而你把some respects放在句子结尾，就给这一点打了折。所以我翻的话会先写"yet in some respects, these beliefs..."
等等等等。所以还是需要多读英文，把握语感。。。
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-- 作者：译译生辉
-- 时间：2005-10-6 13:03:38
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哇...
welkin很不错列
我是新手这学期刚开翻译课
以后做一些练习翻译还请多指教啊
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-- 作者：意外
-- 时间：2005-10-6 18:31:42
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谢谢Welkin25的挑剔，小弟备考期间正苦于无人指导呢，需要有人指出不善之处才能有进步啊。尤其是语感方面，实在应该多多学习。
构句问题:
fine dishes 我是用来翻译“鸡鸭鱼肉”的（不想直译），那个enjoy their wine and dine是翻译“大吃大喝”的，没想到摆在一起的结果却不是很好。不知你对于这一句有什么建议呢？ 若是去掉fine dishes的话，译句还能传达出原文的效果吗？
Besides的用法：
诚如你所言，besides是有“再说”的意思。但并不代表它不可以像我那样用吧，因为译句里我用的是“（除次以外，）还有的意思”，以下有我观察到的一些例句，不全然是你所说般的转折加强的用法
ROME ITALY CITY GUIDE offers suggestions both for alternative accommodation as Bed & Breakfast, apartments, and traditional hotels. Besides, traditional and seafood restaurants, bars and pubs in Rome personally selected for tourist who want to enjoy real italian cuisine.
Unrestricted motion vectors and half- and quarter- sample accuracy are permitted. Besides, multiple frame references are also allowed
Spatial prediction is always performed in H.264 /MPEG-4 AVC. Besides, two different segmentation modes are allowed: Intra_4x4 and Intra_16x16.
In March 2005, the Commission for Africa that was set up by Tony Blair also called for another $25 billion for the next three to five years. Besides, in January 2005 it unveiled the results of its Millennium Project, which called for a doubling of aid worldwide.
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月06日 18时32分41秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：welkin25
-- 时间：2005-10-6 21:20:07
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为什么不相信我的语感呢？*郁闷ING*
给你看看The American Heritage Dictionary的分析好了
Synonyms: also too likewise besides moreover furthermore
These adverbs indicate the presence of or introduce something additional. The first three generally imply that the additional element or consideration is equal in weight to what precedes it.
Also is more formal in tone than too: He is gentle, but he is also capable of fierce intellectual combat. If you buy a car, you'll need a parking place, too.
Likewise is even more formal than also and may imply similarity between elements as well as equality: You forgot to mention that her parents were likewise going to attend the ceremony.
Besides often introduces an element that reinforces what has gone before: I don't feel like cooking; besides, there's no food in the house.
Moreover and furthermore frequently stress the importance of what is to come: The cellar was dark and forbidding; moreover, I knew a family of mice had nested there. I don't want you to go; furthermore, I forbid it.
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-- 作者：welkin25
-- 时间：2005-10-6 21:24:40
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而且。。。嘿，你给的例子，第一个大概是意大利人写的，其次两个是西班牙的，最后一个是厄立特里亚的，不是很有说服力吧？
而且就算不是这样，我不知道你是怎么找到这些例子的，但是搜索过程中肯定会看到更多的支持我的说法的句子。应该可以了解我说的意思更为通用吧？不必那么stubborn吧？=)
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月06日 21时33分40秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：意外
-- 时间：2005-10-7 19:53:43
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嘿嘿，为自己justify一下：
不要说我不相信你的预感啊，在下对你的预感一直是很佩服的，而且你很多的修改都对我十分有帮助。只不过做学问总是要有点怀疑和挑战的精神的说。
我从来也没有否定过你说besides的用法（有个错误，你说“转折加强”误导我的说，更确切的话应该是递进的关系，转折和递进是完全不同的哦）。老实说，最通用的应该是“besides + sth.”, 那是besides最最基本的意思，“除...之外，（还有）...”，所以我觉得我的例子中“besides”或许从正统语法上来说不是标准的用法，但不见得unacceptable，也不会影响人们理解句意。
作为一名翻译就应有能为自己justify的能力，这不是stubborn哦
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-- 作者：welkin25
-- 时间：2005-10-7 21:32:57
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with fine dishes and wine for people to enjoy 就行了
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-- 作者：haoone
-- 时间：2005-10-10 1:44:53
-- 回复：翻译演习（三）—台湾的宗教信仰
The translation had been very much refined by the time I saw, but I managed to pick out a few imperfections - for your refernce only:
1. massses - the word has a slightly more restrictive meaning compared with the general word "人民”， i would rather use "public".
the masses - The body of common people or people of low socioeconomic status
2. Buddhists are numerous in Taiwan and its estimated number is at least over millions.
- There are numberous Buddhist in TW and the estimated number is at least a million.
3. needs and notions of local inhabitants
- needs and mentalities of local residents
4.Temple fairs in Taiwan are very interesting and could be regarded as the climax of folk religious activities.
- The grand pilgramage in TW is very interesting and a virtual climax of folk religious activities.
5. Huge crowd of disciples offer incenses in every temple; some of them even prepare large-scale feasts with fine dishes and wines for people to enjoy in such a lively and bustling atmosphere.
- Huge crowd of followers offer incenses in every temple; some of them even prepare big feasts of fine dishes and wines, while their guests devour and quaff in rapture.
desciple is more of elite follower than gerneral follower, big-scale is not used to describe feasts
Last paragraph is a good one, I like your work..
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-- 作者：意外
-- 时间：2005-10-10 15:46:01
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Thanks for your revisions upstairs. Some of your opinions are very much appreciated.
But I still like to justify some points here:
1. Buddhists are numerous in Taiwan and its estimated number is at least over millions.
- There are numberous Buddhist in TW and the estimated number is at least a million.
I don't think your rendition can make the sentence really well-connected in the context. That's why I did not use "there are" . My translation's not a perfect one either. So, more perfect version pending.
2. I admit that mentality is better equivalent, but notion is still acceptable here because their difference does not really matter here.
4. Similarly, "inhabitant" and "resident" are both acceptable
3. After consulting my Taiwanese friend, "大拜拜" is more or less like "庙会", I think "pilgrimage" is a little bit overtranslated.
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月10日 15时50分23秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：haoone
-- 时间：2005-10-10 20:27:04
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Regarding comments from above,
1. "there are" is a structure that sounds more natural to me, while "at least over millions" defininately sounds ambiguous and not right to me.
2. Glad to see you can appreciate the nuance.
4. I only had an intuitive feeling that resident was more appropriate, but on seeing your doubt, I consulted American Heritage Dictionary and found myself right, the reason being similar to "masses" against "public".
3. You do have a point there. I also hesitated whether to use pilgrimage. On a second thought, I lean toward using Grand Pilgrimage to denote its local characteristic. It is not a temple fair in my understanding.
These being said, we don't have to agree to each other. As long as we can widen our views and thinking during the exchanges, it would very much a pleasure.
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-- 作者：意外
-- 时间：2005-10-10 21:32:09
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Actually, such "nuances" between synonyms do not really make sense in practical application, except for some occasions like legal documents.
Take "inhabitant" & "resident" as an example,
1."But we also saw an influx of local inhabitants who have been deprived of health care for years and whose condition was also precarious.” [from Medicins Sans Frontieres Australia]
2. In anticipation of an influx of local residents, he is shifting his store's emphasis from guayaberas favored by Latin tourists to "something that looks more like it came from the Gap." [from St. Petersburg Times]
3.Several local inhabitants told the official that they could not accept the author as their neighbour, ...... a group of local residents had already gathered to protest against the potential arrival of another foreigner. [from UN Committee on the Racial Discrimination]
4. Energy and Mines Minister Carlos Herrera said the project would first have to past rigorous environmental studies, and would then be placed before local residents for approval. ...... Manhattan has sought to reach a compromise with local inhabitants, [from planetark.com]
Do you think their nuance really work or make sense here? That's why I emphasize that both are acceptable.
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月10日 21时33分34秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：welkin25
-- 时间：2005-10-11 1:47:18
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on masses vs. public: masses is more acceptable here. public indicates a distinction from the private sector or the gov't sector, it refers to a domain rather than to a group of people, whereas masses refers to the people.
on residents vs. inhabitants: there isn't much diff. the only thing is residents usually apply to human only, whereas inhabitants can be applied to animals, etc. ex. "the inhabitants of the forest" would refer to all the creatures that live in it.
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月11日 01时48分34秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：haoone
-- 时间：2005-10-11 17:14:47
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To Yi Wai and Welkin25,
Augument serves no purpose if we don't try to expand or at least confirm our understanding on the topic. From what you you wrote, I figure you are speaking from your existing knowledge/understanding only.
Let's first take a look at the Heritage Dictionary
Inhabitant - One that inhabits a place, especially as a permanent resident:
Resident - One who resides in a particular place permanently or for an extended period,
To put it into a "practical" perspective, resident is a bigger concept than inhabitant. If you go to a city and settle down there, you become a resident but not an inhabitant of the city; maybe you son or even grandson will only feel comfortable to call himself an inhabitant of the city, though that "time line" is a bit obscure. If you ever have the chance to look at some English-speaking government's brochure, you will never see the word "inhabitant" used, unless in some defined conttext, like "aboriginal inhabitant".
Having said that, let's take a look at the sentences Yi Wai cited, and you will probably agree that the writers don't choose the two words by random, or simply to alternate for a little variety! - Third sentence is a particularly good example to support my view.
I could elaborate a little on masses v public, but the "nuance" is even more abstract, may out of my capacity to explain, let alone convince, so let it be.
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-- 作者：意外
-- 时间：2005-10-11 20:11:30
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Well, I'm not saying that such nuances are useless at all or one can use words freely regardless of their differences. I do believe in the differences in their connotations as you sadi. But my point is that, in many cases, there is no absolutely right or wrong in judging the use of these synonyms.
You are right that government brochures have a clear usage between "inhabitant" and "resident", but the document style is different, which requires a more precise and strictly defined wording. While in some other articles, this kind of identification does not make much senses
Take the style of my original text as example, indeed the connotations of using these two words are slightly different, but does it really matter? Neither the original text clarifies "居民" refers to "inhabitant" or "resident", so both translations are justifiable. That's why I keep stressing "acceptable".
It's not easy and even impossible to pursue a 100% equivalent or totally perfect or translation. Instead, I would reckon acceptable and idiomatic as benchmarks of translation.
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月11日 20时19分12秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：haoone
-- 时间：2005-10-11 21:17:23
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I absolutely agree your words are acceptable, I guess the challenge for you and me is not telling right from wrong, but progressing from right to fine, if not perfect.
Let's work harder!
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月11日 21时26分41秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：welkin25
-- 时间：2005-10-12 3:18:36
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haoone: It seems that all you're basing your argument on is the definitions from the dictionary. That is fine in itself, but please realize that denotations do not say the least of connotations. I have learned the different connotatios of "residents" and "inhabitants" from years of experience, and that, is something no dictionaries -- no matter how comprehensive and authoritative -- can teach you.
And plus, we translate so that people who speak English can understand us, not so that it would fit the definitions of a dictionary. If most English-speakers agree with me, then (#&%)*#@&% the dictionary.
本贴已被 作者 于 2005年10月12日 03时21分50秒 编辑过
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-- 作者：haoone
-- 时间：2005-10-12 10:55:52
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I must have made a terrible argument. Please allow me to bow my way out.
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